Tune in now to the latest Moments Move Us episode with Rhonda Brandon, SVP and Chief Human Resources Officer at Duke University Health System 🎧
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New Podcast Episode:
Rise & Lead with Rhonda Brandon
What You’ll Learn:
Nobody has all the answers, not even leaders, so why pretend that we do?
Dr. Hanna Song, the VP and Chief Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Officer for Children’s Hospital Los Angeles, believes the best leaders are those who acknowledge their gaps and are willing to do something to fill them.
In this episode, Hanna tells the story of a leader in her organization who intentionally went out to find an experience to help him see things from someone else’s perspective. Give the full episode a listen to hear about how really seeing the people on your team and listening to their challenges can win you a lot of respect, even when you don’t have a solution.
What To Listen For: DEI, Empathy, Feedback
Rebecca: Let’s hear how Hanna got into healthcare and the changes she hopes to see.
I started in higher education and in my work around diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) when the George Floyd incident hit, every industry was like: “What are we doing? What have we done? What have we not done? How can we grow in this area?” I think healthcare is the same way. When Children’s Hospital Los Angeles opened a position, their first full time Chief Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Officer, knowing that their mission is so palpable and bringing hope to children. I have three kids of my own. Of course I wanted to be part of this. And in talking to the C-suite, it was not just this perfunctory superficial role. It was really, “How can we embed DEI? How can we ensure that we are looking at everything we do with this DEI lens?” So I knew it was time for me to make a pivot into an industry that really is near and dear to my heart, and in a leadership structure that really supported this kind of change.
I started in higher education and in my work around diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) when the George Floyd incident hit, every industry was like: “What are we doing? What have we done? What have we not done? How can we grow in this area?” I think healthcare is the same way.
When Children’s Hospital Los Angeles opened a position, their first full time Chief Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Officer, knowing that their mission is so palpable and bringing hope to children. I have three kids of my own. Of course I wanted to be part of this. And in talking to the C-suite, it was not just this perfunctory superficial role. It was really, “How can we embed DEI? How can we ensure that we are looking at everything we do with this DEI lens?” So I knew it was time for me to make a pivot into an industry that really is near and dear to my heart, and in a leadership structure that really supported this kind of change.
How did you get started with DEI as your passion? Was there an “a-ha” moment that you had where you knew this is where you wanted your worked centered?
My kids. I think so much of why we do the things we do is really driven by something personal. My kids as they were going through elementary school and kind of dealing with these dynamics, and even this George Floyd incident, when they were trying to process what they were seeing on the news, I realized really quickly they didn’t have the language, they just knew something was weird. And I realized we need to have these kinds of conversations way before we translate some of these values and paradigms in the workplace. And so, in trying like every mom does, wanting the world to be a better place for their kids and children across the world, I just wanted to be part of something that would make a very differential impact. And, honestly, adults are no different. Let’s be honest. We’re just a little more respectful and professional in the way we deal with interpersonal dynamics, but oftentimes, especially in DEI work, when we’re trying to attract diversity we’ll often hire you because you’re different, then fire you because you’re too different.
How do we create environments where people can feel that they belong regardless of how “different” they are?
I think it has to be intentional and strategic and really evidence-driven. DEI is three different things, right? Diversity is really different than equity and inclusion. Of course they’re like concentric circles that overlap. But when we think about DEI has to have somewhat separate strategies, right. Because, you can’t do the Noah’s Ark way of diversity where you have to have everything right? Check, check, check. We got diversity! Or, we look representative of our patients and families. Great. But, those different subpopulations… do they feel like their work matters? Do they feel like they have equal say in a meeting or in a decision point as a team member? Are they representative in the leadership position? Are they being promoted, retained, recruited, etc? It’s so insufficient just to look at just the D part. And oftentimes I think it’s the easiest to be honest, right? Cause it’s a numbers game. But really to ensure this idea of inclusion, like you said, the sense of belonging, right. And how can we be curious enough to avoid judgment and to really get to know each other. And that to me is such a big part of inclusion and what drives company culture, and then attracts the diversity that we want to see. And then finally, the equity piece is the accountability. Are we ensuring that these diverse groups are having equal, equitable access to resources in terms of outcomes. Do they look similar? How are we supporting folks knowing that everyone’s starting from a very different place, but giving them that equal experience is going to require some equitable approaches and initiatives and programming.
I think it has to be intentional and strategic and really evidence-driven. DEI is three different things, right? Diversity is really different than equity and inclusion. Of course they’re like concentric circles that overlap.
But when we think about DEI has to have somewhat separate strategies, right. Because, you can’t do the Noah’s Ark way of diversity where you have to have everything right? Check, check, check. We got diversity! Or, we look representative of our patients and families. Great. But, those different subpopulations… do they feel like their work matters?
Do they feel like they have equal say in a meeting or in a decision point as a team member? Are they representative in the leadership position? Are they being promoted, retained, recruited, etc? It’s so insufficient just to look at just the D part. And oftentimes I think it’s the easiest to be honest, right?
Cause it’s a numbers game. But really to ensure this idea of inclusion, like you said, the sense of belonging, right. And how can we be curious enough to avoid judgment and to really get to know each other. And that to me is such a big part of inclusion and what drives company culture, and then attracts the diversity that we want to see.
And then finally, the equity piece is the accountability. Are we ensuring that these diverse groups are having equal, equitable access to resources in terms of outcomes. Do they look similar? How are we supporting folks knowing that everyone’s starting from a very different place, but giving them that equal experience is going to require some equitable approaches and initiatives and programming.
Understanding the intention behind what we’re doing, not just the checking of the box is really the power of the work it sounds like. I think so many times in healthcare people are running around trying to do the work of many people. Now we have this huge retention crisis that’s going on in our industry. How do you get people to pause and remember the intention behind the work?
We have to see them. We have to validate what they’re doing. We have to celebrate the wins and we have to humanize all of this and feel like we’re all part of something bigger. And you’re right, the stats are so alarming, right? 40,000 or so full-time RN shortage across the state. How are we going to fill this gap of what we need in terms of demand and the supply of nursing? We’re still navigating pay equity. Women aren’t being paid what like 82 cents to the man’s dollar. I mean, we are still dealing with a lot of these crisis moments, and in those times, especially in healthcare where we want to fix everything, I totally get it at some moment though we need to pause. And I think about that one movie during the COVID pandemic I’ve been really showing my kids all these old movies and Avatar’s one of them and the way they greet each other is by saying, “I see you”, and at Children’s Hospital Los Angeles we do these excellence rounds where some of the leadership go to different units and we just listen, like, “What’s working? what’s not working?”, or, “how are you today?” And what we notice is so many times at the beginning, people are like, “oh, we don’t know what to say, are you after a problem or a solution, or do you want something pragmatic?” And then once we just sat there and was like, “no, really, how are you doing? Tell me about the case that you’re at right now.” And they were able to articulate the challenges, or express, “Hey, we would really love this one extra thing. Can we feed, for example, the families and not just the patients?” Or “can we please get some extra hours or. information about dealing with certain kinds of cultures?” These asks are so minimal. And yet when we were able to listen and say, “yes, I see you, I see that you struggled today and you weren’t able to come in because you’ve been doing back to back shifts and you are exhausted. And we want to just thank you for being here.” I mean, it changes the entire tenor of that conversation, And I love rounding because of this. It grounds us on what matters and what matters is that people just want to be seen, heard, understood. And even if you don’t agree with them, you can still support them. And I think that is just absolutely key to all that we do in healthcare.
We have to see them. We have to validate what they’re doing. We have to celebrate the wins and we have to humanize all of this and feel like we’re all part of something bigger. And you’re right, the stats are so alarming, right? 40,000 or so full-time RN shortage across the state. How are we going to fill this gap of what we need in terms of demand and the supply of nursing?
We’re still navigating pay equity. Women aren’t being paid what like 82 cents to the man’s dollar. I mean, we are still dealing with a lot of these crisis moments, and in those times, especially in healthcare where we want to fix everything, I totally get it at some moment though we need to pause. And I think about that one movie during the COVID pandemic I’ve been really showing my kids all these old movies and Avatar’s one of them and the way they greet each other is by saying, “I see you”, and at Children’s Hospital Los Angeles we do these excellence rounds where some of the leadership go to different units and we just listen, like, “What’s working? what’s not working?”, or, “how are you today?” And what we notice is so many times at the beginning, people are like, “oh, we don’t know what to say, are you after a problem or a solution, or do you want something pragmatic?” And then once we just sat there and was like, “no, really, how are you doing? Tell me about the case that you’re at right now.” And they were able to articulate the challenges, or express, “Hey, we would really love this one extra thing. Can we feed, for example, the families and not just the patients?” Or “can we please get some extra hours or. information about dealing with certain kinds of cultures?” These asks are so minimal.
And yet when we were able to listen and say, “yes, I see you, I see that you struggled today and you weren’t able to come in because you’ve been doing back to back shifts and you are exhausted. And we want to just thank you for being here.” I mean, it changes the entire tenor of that conversation, And I love rounding because of this. It grounds us on what matters and what matters is that people just want to be seen, heard, understood. And even if you don’t agree with them, you can still support them. And I think that is just absolutely key to all that we do in healthcare.
“Seeing” someone is really hard work, because we have to put our ego aside and our agenda aside to really look in someone’s eyes and meet them where they are. When you think back to your own leadership journey, is there something you can point to that’s given you the voice and the courage to be able to kind of do this type of work in this way?
I think it has to do with recognizing and finding mentors and kind of creating what, like the Harvard Business Review talks about ‘your personal board of directors.’ I had several mentors along the way, and the ones that I feel are the most important in my life are the ones that were willing to say, “I don’t have all the answers.” And so when there is this level of vulnerability, it creates, you know what we are honestly really after currently in terms of psychological safety or wellness, it creates this idea that, “Hey, they don’t have it all together either.” And you know, we can help each other in dimensions and you don’t have to be an expert in any one.
Can you share a little bit with our listeners about how do we create cultures of forgiveness?
I love this question. It’s honestly an area and a value system that I strive for and I still work on today. So I am by no means an expert in forgiveness, but I think it is absolutely a critical part of this equation. As you can imagine in current society there’s so much going on in terms of a cancel culture, right? We don’t want to say things because we’re worried that it’s going to be a microaggression or we, we don’t want to make a mistake because I don’t want to be labeled as racist, sexist, homophobic. You can insert any -ist there. And so people are in a situation where, even though I preach over and over, “you will make a mistake, you will perpetrate a microaggression because you are a product of the society. You are a product of a history of racism. We will mess up.” And your question about how do you cultivate and create a culture of forgiveness has to do with the fact that Awe can reconcile and sit with it, right? We are willing to be transparent and honest enough to grapple with that mistake. I think forgiveness is absolutely an intentional and strategic act and it’s fully voluntary. I think you are gifted forgiveness, but if you’re not ready to forgive, I think that it creates a situation where it’s a lose-lose on both ends. And it certainly seems connected to the feelings-seen concept. Because I’m not sure if you can forgive someone without really seeing them and knowing sort of their intention and understanding kind of where they were coming from.
I love this question. It’s honestly an area and a value system that I strive for and I still work on today. So I am by no means an expert in forgiveness, but I think it is absolutely a critical part of this equation.
As you can imagine in current society there’s so much going on in terms of a cancel culture, right? We don’t want to say things because we’re worried that it’s going to be a microaggression or we, we don’t want to make a mistake because I don’t want to be labeled as racist, sexist, homophobic. You can insert any -ist there. And so people are in a situation where, even though I preach over and over, “you will make a mistake, you will perpetrate a microaggression because you are a product of the society. You are a product of a history of racism. We will mess up.” And your question about how do you cultivate and create a culture of forgiveness has to do with the fact that Awe can reconcile and sit with it, right?
We are willing to be transparent and honest enough to grapple with that mistake. I think forgiveness is absolutely an intentional and strategic act and it’s fully voluntary. I think you are gifted forgiveness, but if you’re not ready to forgive, I think that it creates a situation where it’s a lose-lose on both ends.
And it certainly seems connected to the feelings-seen concept. Because I’m not sure if you can forgive someone without really seeing them and knowing sort of their intention and understanding kind of where they were coming from.
When you think about leaders and having particular qualities or taking action in a certain way, what are a couple of things that you think that leaders can be doing now to promote a sense of value and belonging so that there are more impactful human connections within the healthcare experience?
I keep going back to that we are fallible humans and systems. We will make mistakes. The American Psychological Association just released their official statement of how they were complicit in racism for so long. We’ll always be making these mistakes. And I think leaders who are willing to be that vulnerable to reveal that and set that tone and expectation, not as to say if you are biased, or if you are going to say a microaggression, but when you are biased or how you were complicit in a conversation that, that ended up with someone feeling a microaggression, it’s not if anymore, it really is how are we shaped constantly by these forces of racism or by inequalities and being willing to be the first one to admit that, to role model what it looks like to request and receive and enact feedback, I think is absolutely key.
Thank you so much, Hanna for such an inspirational conversation. Do you have any final words?
The only thing I’d end with is it’s been such an honor to go through truly a journey and it’s not linear in any way, but this journey of diversity, equity, and inclusion, and I really don’t think we’ll ever achieve a full destination, but I think what matters is how we’re traversing this journey together. How many people we can bring along the way, and that we’re willing to face challenges, and it takes a village to do these things and it takes a team and it takes more than just one person always having to tout the DEI value or the goal or call people out. It really does take a full community. And I’ll just leave with the quote from James Baldwin, who, he says that, “not everything that is space can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is spaced.”
Can you share a time when you’ve seen a personal account of something that went really well that you thought, “Wow, this is what it’s about. This is what I’m trying to get created with the work that I’m doing,” versus a time that it didn’t go in sort of the way that you would have hoped and how those two may have impacted you or informed your own experience?
Everyone has very different value sets, very different experiences, very different exposure, and to be frank, very different appetite to talk about DEI. So when we think about like mandatory trainings or like, we want everyone to be well-versed and drink this Kool-Aid of why diversity is so important to us, you have to recognize that folks are just not ready for it. I tried to mandate DEI training across the board. And what I quickly realized is that it became very superficial and not sustainable. I had folks coming into my office like, “Hey, look, I got like three BIPOC people to apply for this job. And I’m going to hire this one person.” And you’re like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let’s back up, that first of all is illegal. We’re not advocating any kind of quota system, but rather the spirit of this hiring process is really to evaluate and check our own individual biases and how they really interplay and come out during the decision-making process of a search committee, right. That was the exercise, not to check off boxes and to get an award for having and hiring a BIPOC person. So that’s one area where I quickly realized if people don’t understand the why of what we’re doing this can have a lot of unintended negative consequences. So another challenge we have is when we think about BIPOC representation in leadership positions. So we started a leadership program and really quickly it was pretty clear and explicit that we wanted to attract diverse cohort of folks who would be interested in this. And then I was like, you know what? We can’t have it be another like minoritized program, right? Like, “oh, these poor people who don’t have the cultural capital to advance on their own, let’s bring them in, give them the skills”, and it’s this very pejorative, condescending, patriarchal model of providing them an experience. Rather, we are going to keep it competitive and we’re going to take out the bias in selecting folks so that we are representative and proportional to the enterprise. It’s honestly an honor to be part of this program. And because we see the potential in you, and we want to be challenged as an enterprise of what we’re missing to identify talent we’re going to have a more mutual and symbiotic relationship. So that’s an area where it evolved over time. And I really think investing in our talent in this way and recognizing, and being humble enough to know that we can learn something from this process.
Everyone has very different value sets, very different experiences, very different exposure, and to be frank, very different appetite to talk about DEI. So when we think about like mandatory trainings or like, we want everyone to be well-versed and drink this Kool-Aid of why diversity is so important to us, you have to recognize that folks are just not ready for it.
I tried to mandate DEI training across the board. And what I quickly realized is that it became very superficial and not sustainable. I had folks coming into my office like, “Hey, look, I got like three BIPOC people to apply for this job. And I’m going to hire this one person.” And you’re like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let’s back up, that first of all is illegal. We’re not advocating any kind of quota system, but rather the spirit of this hiring process is really to evaluate and check our own individual biases and how they really interplay and come out during the decision-making process of a search committee, right. That was the exercise, not to check off boxes and to get an award for having and hiring a BIPOC person.
So that’s one area where I quickly realized if people don’t understand the why of what we’re doing this can have a lot of unintended negative consequences. So another challenge we have is when we think about BIPOC representation in leadership positions. So we started a leadership program and really quickly it was pretty clear and explicit that we wanted to attract diverse cohort of folks who would be interested in this.
And then I was like, you know what? We can’t have it be another like minoritized program, right? Like, “oh, these poor people who don’t have the cultural capital to advance on their own, let’s bring them in, give them the skills”, and it’s this very pejorative, condescending, patriarchal model of providing them an experience.
Rather, we are going to keep it competitive and we’re going to take out the bias in selecting folks so that we are representative and proportional to the enterprise. It’s honestly an honor to be part of this program. And because we see the potential in you, and we want to be challenged as an enterprise of what we’re missing to identify talent we’re going to have a more mutual and symbiotic relationship. So that’s an area where it evolved over time. And I really think investing in our talent in this way and recognizing, and being humble enough to know that we can learn something from this process.
Can you share a time when you really felt seen for who you wanted to be or, what you wanted to be seen for?
We practitioners are still navigating this space, and so when I feel the most seen is when I’m offering material and let’s say I do hit a blender. For example, I’ve given a presentation and I was explaining that, you know, microaggressions happen. And when you are feeling the microaggression is first step is for you to not feel like you’re going crazy or that you’re crazy and really acknowledge that this dynamic, especially if you felt like a tinge or like, “oh, that didn’t feel good,” that it is truly a microaggression and it’s okay. And I use that word “crazy”, super liberally. And then after that workshop, someone came up to me and was just like, that was such an incredible workshop, it was really informative, you gave me such good practical advice, and may I offer you some feedback? And I was like, of course, that would be amazing. And they were like, you know, you use that word crazy, and you know, I think that triggers folks who are in that neuro-diversity world who are experiencing cognitive disabilities, and I wonder if we could use a different word in the future. And I was like, wow, that was such an incredible gift of feedback because I did not think twice about using the word “crazy” and I think it took so much courage for that person who I didn’t even know to come up and introduce themselves and offer me that gift. I felt so seen. I felt like they understood my intention of wanting to talk about this really important topic, and they wanted to elevate my game. So to me, feedback is how I feel seen, is if you were paying attention and you cared enough about me and the efficacy of my work, that you’re willing to be uncomfortable in offering a feedback to some stranger who is supposed to be the subject matter expert. Wow, bravo, kudos to you.
I’m not surprised but I really admire that you’re sharing that when you feel the most seen it’s when someone gives you the gift of feedback. I know it inspires me to think about feeling seen so much that someone wants to help you and gives you that feedback when I know that this culture is such that sometimes feedback can be very uncomfortable, and I think in healthcare, we do have a bit of a culture around “let’s give a ton of feedback and not that many positives and let’s kind of see what happens to our team members with the hope that they’ll just keep getting better.” When really what happens is they kind of feel demoralized because all they hear is feedback.
Feedback is in both forums. I think positive too. You know, I share this story a lot because it’s so personal but my son, Luca, who is a Lego master, loves building Legos and he’s been doing those like 12, 16-plus Lego sets as early as eight, you know? And he was in his room, I bought him this White House Lego and I was like, “Yes! This is going to take him days, you know, good investment of money and time.” And then of course, you know, just a few hours later, I hear him saying, “yay me!” And I’m like, “what did he say?” And he was like, “yay me!” Like he was celebrating in his room by himself with his Lego set. So I come down the stairs and I go in the room and I was like, “Luca, what are you doing?” And he was like, “I finished. And it’s amazing. Yay. Me!” And I share this story because I think it is so beautiful that he’s able to do something, not need external validation, and recognize how impressive and how beautiful and how accomplished he feels at that moment to say, “yay me.” And to me, that is another form of feedback. We can give feedback to ourselves. When are moments where we can say, “Hey, I did a really good job”, and sometimes no one’s witnessing that, but we can have these Yay Me moments, and I think we need to develop a culture where not only are we asking for constructive feedback of what we can do better and improve on, we can also identify all the things that went well. And why did those go well? And how can we replicate that? I think we have to be explicit about the wins that we have.
I love that “yay me.” I think that’s, that’s a good thing we can all try to incorporate into our internal chatter when we talk to ourselves throughout the day. This show is about recognizing moments between people that really impact them. Can you share a moment that either you personally experienced or that you witnessed that changed the course of where things were going, either for you or for this other person?
When I first started at Children’s Hospital Los Angeles I had a doctor, an ER doctor, come talk to me and he’s gone through a lot of challenges. He is in a leadership position and he was so humble in welcoming me to the CHLA family and sent me some poems he had written during COVID and just some of the experiences he had. And as a white cisgender male he really was committed to growing in this space. Like, he went above and beyond. He identifies as Jewish, that’s his personal religious belief, but he went to a black evangelical church to understand what that was about, why they’re so passionate, what’s happening in terms of that actual service, how is it different than the way he experienced his own religion? Then he went to a prison to really understand, like he went above and beyond to really personalize and expand his repertoire of experiences so that he can actually empathize and really see someone else’s perspective and experience. And to me, I think that is exactly how we need to take it to the next level. We can give that lip service anytime. Of course, who would say, at least publicly, “I don’t believe in diversity. I don’t believe in equity. I don’t believe in inclusion.” Yet when push comes to shove, and it becomes individualized, are you willing to look at the gaps in where potentially your biases may manifest and fill those? Proactively. And I think the answer is super hard and that’s why this DEI work is really hard. In the equity space I hear this all the time. Yes, I believe merit matters the most. And I still understand that we all started from different places, but are you willing to give up your privilege to advance someone else? So when push comes to shove, I think this idea of actionable allyship, actionable change, right? Actionable learning, and this commitment to exposing yourself to these ideals and values is really so inspiring, to be honest. And for him, it was so transformative.
When I first started at Children’s Hospital Los Angeles I had a doctor, an ER doctor, come talk to me and he’s gone through a lot of challenges. He is in a leadership position and he was so humble in welcoming me to the CHLA family and sent me some poems he had written during COVID and just some of the experiences he had. And as a white cisgender male he really was committed to growing in this space. Like, he went above and beyond. He identifies as Jewish, that’s his personal religious belief, but he went to a black evangelical church to understand what that was about, why they’re so passionate, what’s happening in terms of that actual service, how is it different than the way he experienced his own religion?
Then he went to a prison to really understand, like he went above and beyond to really personalize and expand his repertoire of experiences so that he can actually empathize and really see someone else’s perspective and experience. And to me, I think that is exactly how we need to take it to the next level.
We can give that lip service anytime. Of course, who would say, at least publicly, “I don’t believe in diversity. I don’t believe in equity. I don’t believe in inclusion.” Yet when push comes to shove, and it becomes individualized, are you willing to look at the gaps in where potentially your biases may manifest and fill those? Proactively. And I think the answer is super hard and that’s why this DEI work is really hard. In the equity space I hear this all the time. Yes, I believe merit matters the most. And I still understand that we all started from different places, but are you willing to give up your privilege to advance someone else?
So when push comes to shove, I think this idea of actionable allyship, actionable change, right? Actionable learning, and this commitment to exposing yourself to these ideals and values is really so inspiring, to be honest. And for him, it was so transformative.
And have you noticed that since he exposed himself to these new experiences that he’s been different when he interacts with patients or families that might come to him with different sort of lived experience than he had personally?
I think his curiosity has even peaked more. And I think as humans, we are quick to judge and less to be curious. But he approaches situations with the why, like, “tell me more so I can understand what am I missing here? Why can I not be on the same page as you?” And so I think he definitely takes a pause, tries to understand someone else’s perspective because he realized that until he did that, it was all lip service. And so, the way he treats the patients, his colleagues, just any issue as it relates to identity, he takes that pause and goes above and beyond to really immerse himself in knowing what he doesn’t know. We are biological, you know, beings. And if we’re not growing, we’re dead, right. We are constantly evolving whether you want to or not. And I think we can choose the directions that we go. We can choose to expose ourselves to different experiences. We can really activate that change in a very strategic and intentional way. And I think we should.
Hanna, can you share something with our listeners that less than 10% of your work family knows about you?
When I was a kid growing up I had a friend who really loved country music, and I really thought that I’d be the first Asian country superstar. And I never got a chance because I can’t sing, but I thought I’d be a good addition to the Dixie Chicks or to The Chicks they call themselves now.
If you could pick a skill that you could be unbelievably good at, what would it be?
I’ve always wanted something that I could showcase. I think I would actually pick to be the best athlete in a given sport. So, like the best swimmer. And I was a really competitive swimmer until we hit puberty and everyone outgrew me by like six or seven inches, but I would love to have some kind of demonstrable skill like that.
What’s your favorite extracurricular outside of work?
During COVID I started to try new things. Everything that you could potentially do in a virtual setting I tried. So I tried to learn guitar, I tried to learn how to watercolor, and I tried new recipes and cooking. I’m a very YOLO-minded, “you only live once” kind of person. I love having experiences that I’ve never had before. Again, maybe back to this diversity mindset is having different experiences, having new experiences, trying to learn a skill. If I’ve already done it, if I’ve already been there, I don’t want to go there again. I never watch a movie twice. I never read a book twice. I’m ready for the next thing.
So you said that you will try anything once, but did any of those things stick and will you continue doing any of them?
I love watercoloring. I think it’s so great. I was always told my brother had that creative side of the brain, and yet I’ve been playing with watercolor and trying to tap that creative side. I also am continuing the guitar and the one song I want to play is Blackbird.
Explore transformative stories from healthcare executives as they share impactful moments of human connection from their professional journeys.